The Hidden Truth Behind Crop Circles: Human Hands, Higher Forces, and the Mystery That Won’t Die
What if the crop circles that captivated the world weren’t messages from aliens—but something even stranger? In this mind-expanding episode, retired circle maker and Fortean researcher Citizen D joins Jill Hart to reveal the secret history of human-made formations, their mysterious connections to ancient sites, and the unexplainable experiences that continue to haunt those who create them.
From midnight visions to lights in the fields, It Can’t Be People explores the line between art, energy, and consciousness—and asks whether the real mystery lies not in the sky, but within us.
Learn more about Citizen D’s work and upcoming book on itcantbepeople.substack.com
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Transcript
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What if the most mysterious crop circles on Earth weren't made by aliens, but by humans channeling something far stranger?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: In this episode, we pull back the veil on the hidden world of circle makers and their mind-bending encounters at ancient sites where art, energy, and the unexplained collide. Hi, and welcome to the You World Order Showcase Podcast, where we feature life health transformational coaches and spiritual entrepreneurs
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: stepping up to be the change they seek in the world. I'm your host, Jill Hart, on a mission
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: To help coaches and entrepreneurs amplify their voice, monetize their mission, and get visible.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: If you're ready to start attracting premium clients without chasing algorithms or hunting people down like a banshee on a mission, head over to Coachsalchemist.com and schedule your free client acquisition audit. It's the first step in building a business where your clients seek you out rather than you having to hunt them down.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Today, we are chatting with Citizen Dee. Dee is a retired crop circle maker, Fortian researcher, and author of It Can't Be People, Voices from the Inner Circle.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: With decades inside one of the most secretive communities in modern folklore, he's now revealing the truth behind the human-made formations that have baffled scientists and spiritual seekers alike. Through his work on itcan'tbepeople.substack.com, Citizen D explores how the act of circle-making often transcends art.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Touching on synchronicity, consciousness, and phenomena that defy explanation. His upcoming book uncovers first-hand accounts from the makers themselves and challenges everything we think we know about this mysterious global
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Phenomena. Welcome to the show, Dee. It's great to have you with us. I've really been looking forward to this conversation, I gotta tell ya.
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::Citizen D: Yeah, it's been in the diary for quite a bit. Quite a lot.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Please, thank you.
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::Citizen D: So, yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Me too. Awesome.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Awesome, and so I'm gonna ask you the big question, which is, what's the most significant thing in your opinion… oh, excuse me, what's the most significant thing in your opinion as individuals we can do to make an impact on how the world is going?
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::Citizen D: I think we need to go…
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::Citizen D: Beyond… back from the technocratic age that we're in now, we need to go back to… are primal.
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::Citizen D: Instincts that our ancestors knew far more about than we did.
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::Citizen D: That's… that's my opinion. I, I think… I think we're heading… head first for…
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::Citizen D: God knows what. You know, we need to get more personal, and there needs to be more love in the world. That's what I think.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I love that. I love that. So, let's… let's get started, dive right into this. What inspired you to begin making crop circles, and how did you first get involved in what many consider a modern mystery?
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::Citizen D: I think we're quite aligned in some of the things we're talking about. I mean, I'm a very spiritual person, and I've always had a deep-seated
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::Citizen D: interest in the paranormal. I don't really know where it came from. When I saw Close Encounters, it looked to me as a 10-year-old, more like a documentary than a film, because I had this latent, like,
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::Citizen D: it was like I was remembering something rather than seeing something for the first… it's very hard to explain, but when I saw Close Encounters, I thought, hold on a minute, this… this isn't new. I was kind of, like, thinking that it's something to do with the collective consciousness. Obviously, I didn't think of that as a 10-year-old.
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::Citizen D: So I was into everything. I was into Loch Ness, and Ghosts, and Bigfoot, and everything. As a child, you just eat that stuff, you know? We had this magazine called The Unexplained as well, which had, like, you know, remote viewing, and the touring, all the world's mysteries. I just lapped it up as a child. But then I…
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::Citizen D: I really started to drill down into ufology, because ufology was like a develop… a developing phenomenon. Whereas you had, like, ectoplasm and spirituality, you had spiritualism, you had all these, like, trending things, like, you know, like…
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::Citizen D: they tended to be in fashion for 10 years, and then they'd go. I mean, no one knows what ectoplasm is now, it's just gone, you know? But with ufology, it was a developing phenomenon, which was always there, and was just…
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::Citizen D: altering, and it was always there. We were seeing different types of crafts, different types of beings, from, like, the Nordics and the Greys. Just fascinating. And I joined the British UFO Research Association.
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::Citizen D: And back in those days, Jill, as you probably remember, it was a beautiful golden time. It was before the internet, so all you had was the literature, and going to lectures, and we had, like, the, the MUFON review, which came out 6 monthly. We had,
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::Citizen D: we had, like, the British UFO Research Association periodicals, you had to wait for them, and they'd normally be
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::Citizen D: talking about classic cases like Kelly Hopkinsville, or Zamora, or Gulf Breeze, or… but then there'd be sort of inter… but then there'd be interlaced with new reports. Now…
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::Citizen D: they started to feature these crop circles in the early to mid-80s in the UFO casebooks, which came out every year. And in those days, they were…
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::Citizen D: very, very simple. They were single
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::Citizen D: indentations into the crop, which literally made them look like birthed flying saucers. And sometimes you'd have…
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::Citizen D: Four tiny satellite circles around them so that they look like the old
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::Citizen D: B-movie, The Day the Earth Stood Still, tropes like the UFOs with, like, the tripods, and they just literally looked like flying saucers, and their precedent was the, 1970s Australian tally nests, which were also circular indentations, but they were done
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::Citizen D: in grass, rather than in crops. So, because they were done in crop in Wiltshire and in the outlying areas, they were far more pronounced, because, like, the crop was, like, 1 or 2 foot tall.
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::Citizen D: And nobody knew what they were.
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::Citizen D: And then we started to see the phenomenon develop into, like, the classic Led Zeppelin cover, which you probably saw, which was from the Autumn Barnes formation from 1990. Now, this is a really important point, because…
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::Citizen D: that circle was like door keys and corridors and, like, it was… it was like interconnecting dumbbells. It doesn't look like a… it does not look like a landed UFO. No UFO looks like that.
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::Citizen D: But what had happened was the connection between flying saucers and crop circles was already so ingrained in the public psyche as being connected.
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::Citizen D: That, that, it's a very clunky connection when you've got to the new circles, but the public
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::Citizen D: couldn't dismiss… they couldn't… deconnect the two. So, they went from being…
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::Citizen D: birthed flying saucers to messages from our space brothers within the space of, like, a week, you know? And that's a very, very tenuous connection.
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::Citizen D: So that's why my interest was sparked. And, I lived in London at the time, and I didn't realize how close Wiltshire was, so…
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::Citizen D: I decided one year just to come and visit as many as I could.
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::Citizen D: And… I was like many believers. I was…
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::Citizen D: I was convinced it was Mother Earth, or Gaia, or secret military testing, or nature spirits, or UFOs. I had no idea, but I didn't think there was any human element to it whatsoever, and…
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::Citizen D: I used to use this resource called thecropCircleConnector.com, which would tell you where the new circles were, because the season runs from, like, April to September.
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::Citizen D: And I used to plot these things and go and visit the lot within the space of a couple of days. But crucially, if there was… if I wanted to see 15 in 2 days, if I found out
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::Citizen D: from, whatever source, because I wasn't in the inner circle then. If reports came back that two of those 15 were man-made.
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::Citizen D: I just wouldn't bother.
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::Citizen D: I wasn't interested in mad-made formations. And, I held the crop circle makers, the hoaxers, as they're known.
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::Citizen D: In the same contempt, the same disdain that a lot of your listeners may hold me, in that, you know, they think…
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::Citizen D: You know, the mystery's deep enough as it is. We don't want these idiots coming in and making it all the more mysterious. It's already mysterious. Don't, you know, keep…
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::Citizen D: Keep out of it, like, you know, like, Bigfoot footage. Keep out of it, just… the mystery's bad enough, the mystery's deep enough.
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::Citizen D: But then I started to hear about, normally second or third-hand apocryphal tales of strange things that were happening with circle-making teams. And they were normally based on…
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::Citizen D: Dream-driven and synchronicity events.
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::Citizen D: Rather than physical events. And that's where I started to become… to become really, really interested. And I thought… and I didn't want to think it, but I thought, if there are humans involved in this, making a couple of them, or some of them, is that worthy of investigation?
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::Citizen D: It takes a kind of bravery to do that, because a lot of people can't do that. But I thought, okay, I've got to go in. If you're going to research something properly, you've got to be completely objective, you can't have confirmation bias. Let's see if there's anything to these human-made crop circles, even if it's, like, 2 or 5%. And that was where my interest was sparked.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Interesting. Do you think it's connected at all to, you know, the… the old…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I don't know, I don't know what they're called, but there's… there's markings on the earth that are… they're… they're definitely designs.
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::Citizen D: Yeah, the Nazca lines.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah.
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::Citizen D: in Peru.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah!
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::Citizen D: We think there are very strong parallels, because people…
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::Citizen D: miss a fundamental question here, and it's the same question that links the Pyramids, Stonehenge, Avebury, Everyone says.
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::Citizen D: How was it done?
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::Citizen D: No one says, Why? And I think that's the biggest, key, fundamental question.
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::Citizen D: I've no doubt that the Nazca Lines were man-made, okay? But you've got to prompt the question, why would somebody go to all of that trouble? And we've got Stillbury Hill here, which is a monument, an ancient monument.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Now, that took 100 years to build.
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::Citizen D: Now, why would an architect undertake a project like that when they know that only their great-grandchildren would see the completion, and they'd be dead before it was finished? It's really important to say.
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::Citizen D: Why is this happening? Why undertake a project like that, or the pyramids, or Stonehenge, or these ancient stone circles, and the Nazca lines?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. Do you have an answer?
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::Citizen D: No.
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::Citizen D: No, I can't.
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::Citizen D: Because… because…
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::Citizen D: the key to what we're doing, and when I did find out that… when I found out that humans were making crop circles, I was proper peed off. I was really angry, because I thought, I've wasted 10 years of my life researching this stuff.
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::Citizen D: And then it looks as if it's, you know, predominantly people. I was really annoyed.
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::Citizen D: For about 10 minutes.
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::Citizen D: And then I thought, hold on… If humans are involved.
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::Citizen D: In this phenomenon, and they're experiencing these dreams, and they're getting supreme coincidences, like, almost engineered synchronicities.
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::Citizen D: Surely, that makes the mystery far, far deeper.
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::Citizen D: than birth flying saucers, if it's something which is connecting with the human psyche.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, and it… we're talking about huge projects. I mean, crop circles are acres.
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::Citizen D: M.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Of land, and… And you can't… you really can't tell what you're doing except from above.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I mean Just the mechanics of creating them
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: without being able to see it, especially with those ley lines, or those lines that you were talking about. They're… they're very large, and it was… they were created at a time by human beings.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Because we have the ability to look down on the surface of the… of the realm that we are engaged in, we can… we can make sense of it, but from…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: From creating it, you're… you're standing
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And then you're moving into a field to… to create these things. It… it seems…
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::Citizen D: I was… I was baffled.
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::Citizen D: I thought, how the hell can this be… can this be done?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah.
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::Citizen D: Mmm…
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::Citizen D: And then, one day, what happened was, I spent all of my work holiday… I thought, I'm gonna go to Wiltshire, and I'm gonna try and solve this, which is a pretty arrogant thing to do, you know? Why should I get the mystery solved in 3 weeks, when people have been studying it for, like, years and years?
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::Citizen D: And there's a lot of researchers do that. They go, well, I went there, and I spent 2 weeks there. I'm sorry, that's just not good enough, you know?
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::Citizen D: So… I spent a long time here, over the course of one year. There was 40 circles that year.
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::Citizen D: And I visited the lot, and I'd normally get into them…
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::Citizen D: really quickly as well, because we had this resource called the Crop Circle Connector, and a crop circle is like a crime scene.
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::Citizen D: It's literally a crime scene in that it's vandalism, and it's trespass, and it's criminal damage. But it's also like CSI in that…
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::Citizen D: If you don't get to it quickly, Jill.
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::Citizen D: Before the tourists have got there, and before it's been trampled by the hordes.
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::Citizen D: What you're gonna see is muddy footprints everywhere, it's gonna be trashed to bits because it's been contaminated by hundreds of people. You have to see a circle.
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::Citizen D: fresh and clean, you know?
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::Citizen D: But, I started to hear these stories, and…
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::Citizen D: I was overheard once saying, look, I don't really care how they've got there.
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::Citizen D: I'm more concerned about the effects once they're there, because people have situations where they,
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::Citizen D: Their phones die, their batteries go on their phone. I've seen this, it's true, it's all true.
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::Citizen D: I was more interested in the effects of what happened when the circle was there, and
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::Citizen D: I was overheard one night, and this guy said to me, look, we've been watching you for a few weeks, and we think that you are…
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::Citizen D: aligned You know, mentally, to, spiritually, to what we're doing.
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::Citizen D: We've got a corrupt circle that we haven't finished.
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::Citizen D: Because that's quite often the case. People say, well, this can't be made, that can't be made over 2 or 5 hours. A lot of them are done over 2 or 3 nights, but they're so isolated that they don't get spotted, or if they do get spotted, they just don't get reported.
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::Citizen D: or they do get reported and they're added to. So, I thought, I've got nothing to lose. What I'm gonna do… I'd heard all these stories, and I thought, right, I'm gonna go out tonight with these people, finish this crop circle, and I was honoured to be asked.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I thought.
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::Citizen D: I phoned my partner, and I said, look.
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::Citizen D: If I'm going out, I've been invited out tonight.
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::Citizen D: If nothing happens, if nothing spooky happens.
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::Citizen D: I promise you, because I've got a very long-suffering partner, she doesn't believe in any of this. I said, I promise you, if I go out tonight and nothing happens, I'm going to shut my books, blah blah, I'm just gonna go back to UFOs, I'm not interested, it's all… I'm not interested. If nothing happens, I'll just start my researches somewhere else.
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::Citizen D: And we went out.
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::Citizen D: And nothing happened. We were there for 3 hours, we finished the circle, it was a team of, I think, 15 people.
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::Citizen D: 5 of them were tourists from America that had been recruited like the night before.
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::Citizen D: the other… the other lot of the crew, they were all experienced crop circle makers, and I was mentored during the day
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::Citizen D: Or during the early evening, because a crop circle team is only as good as its weakest link, so they told me what I'd be doing. Now, in those days, I was just a foot soldier, I was like a stomper, just a stormtrooper. All you're doing is just flattening crop. You're not doing the complicated marking out. You're just not good enough to do it. You wouldn't have to do it.
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::Citizen D: So anyway, we did this corrupt circle, nothing happened, I was extremely peed off. I'm thinking, these people are just fantasists, it's all made up, they're just trying to pad their part, it's just, you know, hoaxes, it's exactly what I thought it was. What a waste of time.
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::Citizen D: And then… When we finish the crop circle.
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::Citizen D: I saw this flash of light go off, right at… right at the perimeters, right at the outer line, it was.
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::Citizen D: And my first thought was, oh shit, we've been filmed, people are taking Polaroid flashbulb pictures of us.
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::Citizen D: people are taking pictures of us, this is criminal damage. It's gonna affect my employment. I was really, really scared. I thought, we've been done. People have been watching this.
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::Citizen D: And the flashes were as if people were crouching down in the crops, so they were sort of… as if you were crouching down and taking a picture.
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::Citizen D: And I said to the team leader, I said, I don't need this, I should never have done this.
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::Citizen D: And he said, don't worry about it. And then…
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::Citizen D: This single flash multiplied into 10, then 20, then 30 flashes.
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::Citizen D: And they sprinkled themselves around the perimeter of the circle.
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::Citizen D: I don't… I describe it in my sub-stack as the biggest necklace in the world. They were glistening.
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::Citizen D: And I just said to the team leader, what the freaking hell is that?
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::Citizen D: And he said, Hundreds.
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::Citizen D: I think, a lot, an awful lot. And he said, don't worry.
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::Citizen D: We get this a lot. This is just a round of applause. We're being told that the circle is finished.
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::Citizen D: We're being told not to do anything else to it, because we might mess it up, like you do when a painting's finished, and then you add stuff to it. We're being told it's a round of applause.
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::Citizen D: go home.
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::Citizen D: And he said, he looked above, and he said, okay, we've done our work now, now you do yours. Now, what that means is that when a circle's made, it belongs to us. But when the circle is left by us, then it belongs to the world. It's not ours anymore.
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::Citizen D: And he looked up and he said, yeah, okay, we're finished now, we're going home, bye-bye, thank you. And then.
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::Citizen D: This… these lights just went flashed out.
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::Citizen D: And that's when I first thought, what the… Freaking hell is happening.
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::Citizen D: And then we went out the following night, and then when we started to make the circle.
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::Citizen D: there was a pink UAP, which appeared just as we were starting it, and we're in a military area, so you just think there's choppers, we've got all sorts of Apaches and Cherokees, this is a military area. So I thought, oh, shit, that's a helicopter, we're gonna get…
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::Citizen D: We're gonna get photographed again.
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::Citizen D: And it didn't move, and it didn't move for three and a half hours. And then when we finished the crop circle, it just…
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::Citizen D: went. And then I was hooked, Jill.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That is a wild, wild story. Did… does it happen every time you make cycles?
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::Citizen D: No, it doesn't happen every time, and I've spoken to a lot of ufologists about this, and they said we've never heard of waste-level UAPs before.
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::Citizen D: But no, you see, you get people coming out
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::Citizen D: for the spooky show. You get people coming out for the supernatural stuff, like I did the first time, and they're expecting to be entertained, okay? And what's really interesting, and where I think this has got a connection to the human psyche, is that we took a couple of girls out once.
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::Citizen D: I suspected they were journalists, and I said to the team leader, I've got a bad feeling about these people.
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::Citizen D: And he went, no, it's gonna be fine, they just want to come and see the spooky stuff.
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::Citizen D: And, but it doesn't happen every time. It happens 40-50% you'll get a strange thing. Every time you'll get a funny thing, or something eventful, but something that's potentially paranormal, it's 40-50%. Anyway, these girls come out with us.
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::Citizen D: And you'd have thought, Jill, if somebody was to say to you, would you like to come and see a crop circle made tonight, you'd jump at it. But I can tell you, after half an hour, you'd be bored out of your skin, because all it is is a load of people milling around, you know, stomping on boards. It takes about an hour to mark it out if it's a really, really big one.
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::Citizen D: And at 2am, one of these girls said, oh, I'm bored, this is boring, where's the spooky stuff?
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::Citizen D: And then the second that she said that, this… Purple fluorescent corkscrew.
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::Citizen D: appeared in the air above a ridge above her. It was the size of a juggernaut, and it was in… it was within sniper range of her. And this thing, it had, like, it was purple, it had pink.
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::Citizen D: fluorescent edges, and it just went… and went behind this ridge. And this girl's… and this collective woe went up from the team, and this girl said, what was that? And she…
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::Citizen D: it had kind of positioned itself so that she was the only person that hadn't seen it. And our team leader, which was the same guy, said, look, it's not a pantomime, it's not going to perform… it's not going to perform party tricks for you, you've got to respect it to see it. So, the answer to your question is…
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::Citizen D: No, not all the time, but when it does, You go…
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::Citizen D: It… sometimes you kind of need it reinforced, because you think, okay, this is my fifth time out since the last time.
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::Citizen D: is… was… did I imagine it? And… but then something, bang, happens, and you go, okay, I'm right back in it again, you know?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Oh, interesting. How do… how do people who are making these crop circles
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Come up with the idea that, okay, now is the time to make it, and this is what it's gonna look like.
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::Citizen D: What do you mean by now is the time to make it?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Well, what… what is the… The motiva… it's not motivation, but it's the… the…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the spark that causes them to say, okay, this is the design, and I need to go out and do this.
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::Citizen D: Well, this is the rabbit hole. People talk about the UAPs, but really it's this stuff that I'm most interested in communicating.
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::Citizen D: The circle, firstly, to get back to your point about seeing it from above.
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::Citizen D: when you design a crop circle, and it took me a long, long time before I went out and did my first one.
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::Citizen D: It's basically, if you can imagine, like, a math set, like a compass, you know, and a set square, and it's all the stuff that you did at school at maths, okay? The geometric sets, except that.
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::Citizen D: like, a centimeter on your page is gonna be, like, a few feet in the field. So, you don't actually have to see what you're doing when you're doing it, okay? If it doesn't link up, you're in trouble. Because if you're making a circle, and then you find yourself in a different spot at the end, you've got a problem, okay?
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::Citizen D: But,
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::Citizen D: The crop circle season is only from April, which begins in this horrible, yucky yellow canola stuff. It's really horrible, oilseed, it's really horrible, really hard to keep down. The stems are like broom handles, it's elastic, it's really… and they… you can't get much done in that stuff.
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::Citizen D: So the good stuff happens when the wheat and the barley is maturing, and then it's over. It's over by September, because the farmers have cut their crop. So…
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::Citizen D: Between September and April, You've got the rest of the year.
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::Citizen D: to, like… Plot what you're going to do.
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::Citizen D: But… The interesting thing to me is that
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::Citizen D: Sometimes, you'll get, like, trends, where…
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::Citizen D: circles of a fashion that season. And I've seen this, circle makers will have stand-up arguments with each other, saying, where the freaking hell did you get my design from? I was going to stick that exact design down.
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::Citizen D: next week, and you've beat me to it by a week. And it's not like…
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::Citizen D: a yin-yang. It was something unusual. It was like a jellyfish, I think. It was something that had never been seen in the fields before.
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::Citizen D: Then you go to a form… you go to make a formation, and then you'd see that somebody's already done that exact same thing, either in that field, or in a field a couple of fields away. So…
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::Citizen D: In answer to your question, Sometimes, you've got to question where that spark has come from.
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::Citizen D: Because if…
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::Citizen D: if you're using, like, you know, if you're entering your mind, you're saying, okay, I'll just think of an idea.
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::Citizen D: Are you actually then communicating telepathically with the other potential makers who are, like, you know, talking to you through the Shell Drake species field, through the collective consciousness? Or is there something else? And that's the only part of the whole conundrum.
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::Citizen D: That I don't know the answer to. I don't know if we're collectively connecting into our primordial consciousness that our ancestors had, you know, that we've forgotten about now with this technocratic age, or if
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::Citizen D: There is something else.
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::Citizen D: at play here. Some people say it's a game of chess.
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::Citizen D: But we're not playing it with the pieces. That's the only part of the conundrum where I don't have the answer. And I'm sorry, I'm not going to have the answers to everything that you asked today, because we don't know the answers to a lot of this stuff, but you'd rather that than me BS you, you know?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: For sure, for sure. Can I ask you another question? And this is just from my own perspective.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and I've been interested in this stuff for a really long time as well. So, it seems like crop circles aren't…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: as prevalent, or as done as often as they were for a while. It seems like maybe the 80s?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And maybe into the 90s, it was, like…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: All summer long, you were hearing about crop circles, but then it… It doesn't seem like…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: they're made that often anymore. Do you…
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::Citizen D: But…
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::Citizen D: From a purely admin point of view, I mean, what you say is correct. I mean, it was the 90s and the 2000s where you couldn't fall over for them. You know, as I said to you, I visited 45.
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::Citizen D: And I think there was 60 that season. I've visited hundreds.
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::Citizen D: But, if you're thinking from a purely human point of view, what you've got to think is those artists get old, and they just retire.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Right.
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::Citizen D: And other people take up the mantle.
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::Citizen D: And… and their first circle… their first circles are awful.
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::Citizen D: Now, there's a very important point here.
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::Citizen D: I don't want to burst the bubble of all of your listeners. I started this round of interviews back in April, and I would say they're all man-made, 100%,
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::Citizen D: I'm not taking that view anymore, because I'd have been really annoyed with me, you know, at the beginning of my journey to hear that. So, what I'm saying to you, you've got to go on your own journey.
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::Citizen D: But if you're prepared to accept that a proportion of a man made.
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::Citizen D: don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, because there is something still going on. It's still a nice mystery… I'm not sure if it's a nice mystery, but there's still… there's still a mystery to it.
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::Citizen D: But, yeah, a lot of the artists retired, and we've had new… we've had new ones coming in.
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::Citizen D: We've got this sort of defense which is used by a lot of researchers saying, well, you can always tell a crap circle because it's wonky, it hasn't got the precision, it's rubbish, look at the lines, they're awful. But what they don't take into account, or what they know and don't tell you.
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::Citizen D: is that…
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::Citizen D: This is like being in a rock and roll band, okay? If you're in a rock and roll band, and you're rehearsing an artist's basement.
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::Citizen D: You can choose when you go and doing your first gig. You can wait 6 months, you can hit as many bum notes as you like, you go out when you're ready, okay? You do not have that luxury.
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::Citizen D: as a new crop circle making team. You're rehearsing in the open air, and you're being booed on the internet, okay? So, if you go out.
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::Citizen D: in a new team, and you're all new, okay? And you haven't got a mentor or an old veteran, you are gonna make rubbish, okay? But then, in 2 or 3 years' time.
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::Citizen D: Those artists that you're laughing at for making crap circles are the same artists that you're revering their work as being E.T. or Gaia.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Sure.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Interesting. Sounds like tagging in some ways.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: How'd you mean? You know, the… the people that…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Some of the spray paint artists, they are, like, It's so incredible!
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::Citizen D: Oh, that's mad, I've just done a Substack article about this, I'm writing it now.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: No way!
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::Citizen D: Yeah, I'm doing it right now, about,
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::Citizen D: signifiers and markers and signatures, it's like Banksy. We can look at… I can look at a piece of art and say, I know who that is, because his speciality is the spikes and the crescents and the stars. I know who did that, or if it wasn't him.
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::Citizen D: it's someone else that's been out with him, and he's trained them, especially if it's a bad version, it's someone that's gone out by themselves and hasn't got it quite right yet. But yeah, we could look at a formation.
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::Citizen D: and go, either that's made by T, or that's made by somebody that's worked with T, and they will nick their tropes until they, sort of.
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::Citizen D: become experienced and put their own signifiers in. So yeah, there's definitely an element of that to it.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Interesting, interesting.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, you're writing a book, It Can't be people, and you talk about, people from your inner circle. What's one story of revelation that still gives you chills?
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::Citizen D: what, from my own experience, or from one that I've taken from as another circle maker.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Either or.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They told us about the, the purple…
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::Citizen D: Of course. Yeah.
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::Citizen D: But that's, like…
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::Citizen D: because that's physical, you know, it was really important, but it's not the stuff that I'm really interested in. The stuff that I'm really interested in…
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::Citizen D: It's, like, the engineering, and, like, where you just think there's a hidden hand, whether that be us
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::Citizen D: telepathically talking to each other, or whether it be, you know, external. But the one that really gets me
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::Citizen D: That wasn't me, was a,
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::Citizen D: And this encapsulates the whole thing.
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::Citizen D: I know a circle maker who, back in the early 2000s, was… he lived… he lived in the area.
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::Citizen D: He woke up at midnight, just… he was knackered, he was really tired, he'd had a long day, and he was really tired, but he woke up at midnight with this…
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::Citizen D: Compulsion.
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::Citizen D: to make a crop circle. And the crop circle design was in his head, and the actual location was also in his head. And he said.
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::Citizen D: I had to get up in the end, but it wasn't like this joyous, alleluia, religious.
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::Citizen D: reaction to a calling, it was like when your cat is pouring at you with food, or it's like when your barn door is going in the wind. You have to get up, and it's the only way.
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::Citizen D: So, he got up, and it was midnight, so he didn't have time to rustle together a team, because obviously everyone's in bed, and nobody's going to get up at midnight, because most circles start at 10, because you've got these hours between 10 and 3am to get it done.
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::Citizen D: So he had to use tent pegs rather than other team members, so you dig the tent peg in the ground, and that's your other team, so you mark your circle out. But yet, because it was only him, you have to keep putting the tent peg somewhere else. It's really a pain in the ass to do.
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::Citizen D: So, he got his kit together, he… he knew he was resigned, that he had to do it.
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::Citizen D: And he went to a field
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::Citizen D: which was closer to the one that he was being compelled to go to, and I said, why should you go there, M? He went, because I just couldn't be bothered to go to the other one, it was too far. So, he tried to do the circle in this, you know, surrogate alternative field.
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::Citizen D: But the second that he tried to do it, he had nausea, he had headaches, he had this horrible
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::Citizen D: he didn't throw up, but it was really… he felt awful. Like, nausea, really bad. So, and then the second that he'd come out of the field and went, okay, alright.
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::Citizen D: And went to the actual field, It went.
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::Citizen D: So, he…
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::Citizen D: made this corrupt circle by himself, which, by his own admission, was a little bit beyond his own capabilities, but there were problems that he could have had with it. But he got it done.
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::Citizen D: And,
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::Citizen D: But he was hearing, like, a party going on in the next field, like, it was, like, sort of a ritual chanting, bongos, people, like, chanting, like a rite sort of thing. And he thought, well, I better be careful, because I was going to use a flashlight to check my bearings, but I can't do that.
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::Citizen D: And I can't whistle or sing.
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::Citizen D: So… there's a chance I could be caught.
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::Citizen D: Anyway, he got the crop circle done.
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::Citizen D: And then the next… and he basically… he chucked his kit into these brambles and thought, well, I can't go back with it now, it's daylight now, I can't go back now. I'll just… he basically just fell asleep on the spot. About 3 o'clock.
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::Citizen D: Woke up early, sort of 8, 9ish.
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::Citizen D: And there was these 6 girls freaking out in his circle, and they were really freaking out, and he was thinking, well, it was good, but it wasn't that good.
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::Citizen D: But they were really, really exhilarated and really excited, dancing and whooping around.
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::Citizen D: And he walked up to them in the guise of somebody that had just got there, like a rambler.
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::Citizen D: And he sort of said, what's going on? And I said… and this girl was grappling for something around her neck.
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::Citizen D: And he goes, well… and she goes… and they were absolutely delighted, and she was grappling for something around the night. She goes, look, turns out they were Wiccans, or pagans, and they said.
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::Citizen D: We've been supplicating for Mother Nature to give us a gift.
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::Citizen D: we wanted this in the field, and she took off her pendant, and obviously it's what… it's the same… it's the same pattern that he'd made, so he was freaked out.
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::Citizen D: And he… and the penny started to drop.
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::Citizen D: And he said to them, well, when did you start doing your supplications? When did you start doing your spells? And they went, well, midnight, of course, when Wicca is at its most powerful. And of course, that's the time that he woke up. But the…
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::Citizen D: The second part of the story is, I said to… he said to them, did… we having a party last night?
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::Citizen D: Because that's what made him quiet.
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::Citizen D: And they went, no. He said, how did you do your spell? She goes, well, we just invoke it internally, or we whisper it.
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::Citizen D: And he thinks that he was…
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::Citizen D: This is gonna sound crazy. He thinks that what he heard was some sort of oral representation of what their… of what their spell was.
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::Citizen D: And it was there to make him be guarded, because if he wasn't guarded, they'd have caught him, and if they'd have caught him, then they wouldn't have got their present. So it's multi-layered, if you see what I mean. And that's the one where I think you've got everything in there, you've got…
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::Citizen D: The collective consciousness, you've got Wicca, you've got a corrupt circle.
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::Citizen D: But there's something else at play. And everybody was happy, you know, the girls were delighted with it. He obviously didn't tell them the truth, because he didn't want to burst their bubble, and they wouldn't have believed him anyway.
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::Citizen D: Because people have situations in crop circles, they have magical experiences in crop circles.
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::Citizen D: And they take that as proof that it can't be man-made, okay? When our argument is that,
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::Citizen D: We are placing sigils into the land in…
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::Citizen D: ancient, revered, respected sites, and we think that they're very active, and the intent of that sigil is enough to generate… and don't forget, these are on ley lines, okay? We think that we're kind of amplifying
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::Citizen D: the energy that our ancestors knew back to front, but we don't. So, we're kind of like playing at it. But, we think the act of actually imprinting these sigils…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: On particular dates, in particular places.
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::Citizen D: That's what's bringing the magic.
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::Citizen D: And to a certain extent, Jill, it doesn't really matter how they got there. It's what they do when they're there, which is how I became interested in the first place.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Oh, that's… that's so fascinating. I… Yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: This is gonna sound silly, but I've been watching this show called The Librarians, and they're all about protecting the magic.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Because…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: for a long time, there was magic in the world. And to some extent, magic is just science that hasn't been explained.
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::Citizen D: Absolutely. Absolutely!
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But… it does still exist. There is a lot that happens in the world that
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: If we can slow down and just look at it.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: For what it is, and not have to explain it.
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::Citizen D: Yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: There… there is still a lot of… of wonder and…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, magic, that happens to us all the time, and it seems like these crop circles
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: whether they're all man-made or not man-made, it doesn't really even matter. It's this.
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::Citizen D: Hmm.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: they're… they exist. They're brought into existence, and there is some energy that is
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Is either a result of them being made, or…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: were… was the impetus for them to be made. That, too, doesn't matter.
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::Citizen D: Damn.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Now, they have been brought into this realm and have become an… a thing.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it has its own energy, and it's going to impact those that see it, or experience it, or… and also those that were involved in the creation of it.
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::Citizen D: I totally agree. I mean, people say about, you know.
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::Citizen D: When witches used to cast spells.
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::Citizen D: You still needed a human witch to do it.
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::Citizen D: the witch wasn't ethereal, the witch wasn't a spirit, the witch was a human, you know? And the important thing with this subject is, hand on heart, Jill, honestly.
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::Citizen D: I'm prepared to have my mind changed at any point. If you could give me definitive, 100%, not speculative, if you could give me 100% proof.
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::Citizen D: 100% proof that some crop circles aren't man-made. I'm really prepared to go down that investigative route, you know, but where I am now is that,
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::Citizen D: I don't see… even though I can't do it.
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::Citizen D: I could look at a crop circle and think, well, I've been out with the masters, I've been out with the best, you know, or second degree position best, and…
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::Citizen D: I can't do it, but I can see how it's done.
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::Citizen D: But the other important thing is, when I said to you before about the tininess and those single circles.
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::Citizen D: I don't know how they got there.
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::Citizen D: I… I honestly… I've… I've been in a couple.
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::Citizen D: They're not reported, or they're not seen because they don't look pretty on calendars. We're in an age now where it's JPEGs, it's like, you know, high definition on phones, it's gotta be pretty. If it's not pretty, it's fake. People overlook these ones, okay? They were mostly predominant in the 80s.
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::Citizen D: And they're, like, the single, the single, you know, sort of birthed UFO ones. I'm not saying that they're birthed UFOs, what I'm saying is.
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::Citizen D: a lot of the researchers, we don't know what they are. And I… sometimes they look like crop damage, and I've been in them. It looks like it's…
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::Citizen D: too formed to be crop damage, but not round enough to be, like, a decent circle. And I've been in those things, and, like, the crop's bent.
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::Citizen D: inches up. You can't do that with a board. And the real researchers, the people that are really objective, that are really…
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::Citizen D: You know, still into the mystery part of it, as saying.
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::Citizen D: We still don't know what they are, those early ones.
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::Citizen D: Because sometimes there's no tram lines in the field, you know?
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::Citizen D: And you need the tram line… you need the tram… you need the tram line to go in there to… and then you… and then what you do, once you're in the tram line, once you've found where you're going to be, you then take very, very… if you've got a five-man team, you spread it in a row, and then you do big steps into the crop. You don't follow each other's straight line, okay?
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::Citizen D: But you need that tram line, you know, to get you into the field.
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::Citizen D: this…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Otherwise, it looks like somebody chomped across the field!
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::Citizen D: Yeah, well, you see, sometimes what happens is, back to this CSI thing, people will say, that's man-made, you can see where they walked in. No, you can't. You can see the 300 people afterwards, because that's been taken 3 days later, you know?
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::Citizen D: But that's just a little secret of the trade there. If you've got a five-man team, you go in in a row, and you take big steps over the crop. But sometimes, these things had no tram lines, and you think.
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::Citizen D: No! How can that be done?
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::Citizen D: You know? So I still think there's an element of mystery with those single ones, because I've been in a couple.
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::Citizen D: They don't get reported, though, Jill.
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::Citizen D: Because it's not pretty. But, yeah, there's still…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I can't really explain it. It's hard to say, well, that was… those were man-made, too, look.
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::Citizen D: Fundamentally, the problem is we are now in a world of ever-decreasing attention spans, and if it isn't blingy and pretty, you'll just say it's fake. Whereas our contention is the simpler the circle, the more likely it is to be real.
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::Citizen D: Because we can't understand those early ones, you know?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, this is all so fascinating, and I really appreciate you coming on and talking about it. We've just been able to look at some of the…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Taking crop circles out of the… these are all aliens, and you can.
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::Citizen D: They're believing.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: in aliens, or you cannot believe in aliens, into a bigger look at them in terms of… it could just be consciousness.
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::Citizen D: Asking us to do things. Yeah, I'm really interested in, as I said, when I spoke to you about being a ufologist, which I am a die-hard ufologist, I don't really read new stuff.
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::Citizen D: My grounding was, like, John Keel.
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::Citizen D: and J. Allen Hynek, and Jacques Vallier, and John Spencer, and Jenny Randalls, they're the key people for me. I don't really read about Roswell too much. I don't really read about Area 51. I'm more into the… I'm more into the mechanics of the phenomenon. And Jacques Vallier, who is the godfather, in my opinion.
356
::Citizen D: talks about the ufology in terms of something which interacts with the human psyche. He said.
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::Citizen D: it's not ET, it's not spacemen, it's not from outer space, it's from inner space, and the chances are it's probably interdimensional, and it masquerades as ET, okay? So it makes you think it's ET.
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::Citizen D: And that's where I'm with the crop circle phenomenon as well. I think you're supposed to think that it's that.
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::Citizen D: But as J. Allen Hynek is the godfather of ufology, you know, he was, you know, brought in for the majestic Twilight, I mean, you know who he is. He said, many years ago, before he died, he said.
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::Citizen D: we are not in a state in our evolution where we think we're clever, we're actually primitive, okay? We need to get back to, you know, source, you know? He says, even if the UFO problem was solved, and we were given the answers today.
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::Citizen D: We are not in a position where we'd even understand it. It's quite arrogant for us to think that we can have, with respect, you know, you and me, it's quite arrogant for us to sit here and say, we've got the answers. I don't think we're mentally developed enough to understand a lot of this stuff yet. That's my opinion.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I, yeah, I totally agree with you.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, people can learn more about this on your Substack. Do you want to talk about that for just a second?
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::Citizen D: The reason why I called it It Can't Be Papal was because
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::Citizen D: the first crop circle I walked in.
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::Citizen D: It was like this Pentagon thing with diamonds in it, and it was just amazing.
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::Citizen D: turned out, when I did my first one with that guy, it was the guy that had made it. But the first thing when I walked… I walked around, and I just looked around in this crop circle, the edges were sharp, they were defined, and I just went…
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::Citizen D: it can't be people. And it took me years and years of research, and as I said, going out into the fields.
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::Citizen D: And it's a doable entendre, because I still say, it can't be people, because my contention is that it is people, but there's something which can't be people, which is attract… which is attached to it. And, the blowback that I'm getting from the community is… it's not…
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::Citizen D: terrible, but,
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::Citizen D: 99% of the reactions that I'm getting are from people from outside the community, and it's very, very positive.
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::Citizen D: Because I'm not trying to… change your mind. If you want to believe that they're ET, just…
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::Citizen D: Go on your own journey, but when you see…
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::Citizen D: A human made a circle don't think that we are hoaxers, and we're trying to deceive you, or we're laughing at you.
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::Citizen D: over your eyes. We're not.
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::Citizen D: we're compelled to do… I mean, I haven't been in the field for 10 years, but…
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::Citizen D: When you're in it, when you're in the subject and you're making, you get compelled to do it, and go back to your original thing.
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::Citizen D: You think it's your idea, and then you go and make it, and somebody's already bloody done it.
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::Citizen D: You know, and the design is completely different from anything else that's gone before. Like I said, a jellyfish, you know. No one had ever seen that before.
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::Citizen D: And then, it's like… I was on a podcast last week, and he equated it to, like, Tesla and Marconi having the… patent in the radio at the same time from thousands of miles away, you know? We're having these ideas.
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::Citizen D: And then we think… we think they're ours, and then we find out that someone else has had the same idea, and we've got no connection whatsoever to them, because there's this myth that we're… that we're this secret society, and we're close-knit, it's all a load of, you know, it's just… it's not right, you know.
382
::Citizen D: you might be on nodding terms with other teams, but you don't know everybody, you know? Your one common denominator normally is you've worked with a maestro, and you've gone out, and then the teams proliferate. There was loads of teams.
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::Citizen D: We don't know each other a lot of the time, and yet we're coming up with the same things.
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::Citizen D: And it's not like…
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::Citizen D: circles, it's really detailed stuff, which has never been seen before, and that's when you start to think.
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::Citizen D: If you expand your mind and think, What's happening, you know?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, it's, it's…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So fascinating, and you really have opened up the idea that it could be so much more than aliens. I mean.
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::Citizen D: Yeah, and the reason why I can't appear on camera, and we had a little chat before, three reasons. Firstly, even though it's 10 years since I entered the field.
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::Citizen D: there is no statute of limitations, I can still be sued, or, you know, it's not a criminal matter, but it's a civil matter if a farmer wanted to do anything, if he connects me through a circle, because it's trespass, it's vandalism. No matter how pretty it is, it's still vandalism. It's criminal damage.
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::Citizen D: Another reason I don't appear on camera is because of, like, because I don't really want this stuff to impinge and bleed into my personal life.
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::Citizen D: And thirdly, it's not an ego thing, it's the image speaking, it's the story speaking, it's not me speaking. It's not about me. And that's why I don't want to appear on camera. I just think that it's…
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::Citizen D: An area that's not really discussed.
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::Citizen D: And I just think there's room for it, that's all. And I just invite your listeners to go on their own journey, really.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Well, I really appreciate you joining us today, Dee. This has been a fascinating conversation.
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::Citizen D: Thank you. Mutual.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: To learn more about Citizen D and the crop circle phenomenon, please visit itcan'tbepeople.substack.com, and we'll be sure to put those links in the show notes below. Thanks for tuning in with us today to the You World Order Showcase Podcast. If you're ready to amplify your voice, monetize your mission, and start attracting premium clients, your next step is simple. Head to Coachsalchemist.com and schedule your
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: free client acquisition audit. Be sure to join us for our next episode as we share what others are doing to raise the global frequency. And remember, change begins with you. You have all the power to change the world. Start today and get
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: visible.
